Chiming in to say that I've also had a lot of enlightenment experiences, though of course like all the others, I have no proof.
Actually it's impossible to prove you had an enlightenment experience, because the (real) experience of enlightenment is one where subject and object disappears momentarily.
I'm in the rinzai school of zen Buddhism, where you introspect what are called koans.
I started introspecting koans after reading the teachings of joshu sasaki roshi. From reading him, I felt like he knew what he was talking about.
A koan is not a riddle but a way to manifest or realize this (momentary) oneness of subject and object.
First time it happened to me was while working (manual labor). I was introspecting the mu koan, saying mu mu mu to myself while working and I had a very brief experience of oneness which lasted half a second.
Second time was during meditation, I was just sitting doing shikantaza (do nothing meditation) and out of the blue said mu in my head which led me to another experience (very brief, like a one second) experience of oneness.
I then started to introspect the 10th koan in the gateless gate : seizei alone and poor.
I tried to experience this oneness while (suddenly) hearing something.
I got it while just sitting and hearing suddenly the noise of a truck passing by. Again, it only lasts a second but it leaves an impression, it’s really strong.
I then cultivated this ability, and now after many years I can experience this oneness whenever I hear anything unexpectedly. if you try for it, you miss it. (Though of course at first you have to try. You have to try without trying, which is why it’s insanely hard to get this enlightenment experience). but it does get easier as you progress.
So (real) enlightenment is not a state you fall into and where you stay, rather it’s an ability to experience oneness from time to time for just a second. As soon as you become aware of it, it’s gone –Because it’s an experience in which subject (“you”) and object (everything else) are together. You can’t stay in it unless you die.
I hope my take (which i know is different from the one you usually hear) will be of some help
This is absolutely fascinating. I guess I’ll take the hint that I ought to pick up my meditation practice again. But this reminds me of the Wim Hof situation. It’s not always clear whether it’s the method or the person that is special. Does the WHM give everyone superpowers? Or is Wim just a freak? Daniel Ingram seems like a similar character. Are these results replicable in other people? If not, why not? Just because we’re too lazy to stick with the program? (Not unlikely) If the method is applicable to noobs like me, should I buy Ingram’s book?
Looking forward to part 2!
(For the record, I’ve been doing cold exposure regularly for a few years with great results.)
Contemplative practices are a lot like methods of exercise. There are many studies showing weightlifting is great, many studies showing yoga is great, many studies showing pilates is great, etc. However, the impact of *repeated practice* far outweighs the impact of any 1 session. Therefore, it's less important to pick the method that is optimal among methods, and it's more important to pick the method that is sufficiently good while being something you personally connect with and will want to read/study/practice again and again. Over time, you may switch or blend methods as your skills, awareness, and preferences grow, and that's part of the journey to full mastery
As far as Daniel Ingram's ideas, I read MTCTB 3 years ago, and I still thumb through it or read chapters as part of my regular contemplative practice, which I identify as pragmatic Buddhism. The 1st section "Fundamentals" and last section "My Spiritual Quest" are good for many to read, while the other 4 are extremely in-depth for pragmatic Buddhists specifically. The book will do a good job giving you perspective on how to compare/contrast spiritual systems. Basically, how we might compare systems that have potentially similar ideas like "enlightenment," "awakening," "kensho," "self-actualization," and many more. It helped me better evaluate the spectrum of spiritual systems that are out there, and now I feel comfortable identifying which systems work for me. I would expect a similar outcome for you
I am one of those non-monks guys, and inside me there is a deep sense of this as the ultimate truth of my experience as a human being. There seems to be nothing more important to do in my life than aiming towards that truth, and I'm just coming back from a 10 day retreat on which we worked with plant medicines (Iboga), meditation (self-inquiry) and other tools of exploration of the mind to create conditions of no escape for the ego. Basically what your friend said about the implosion of the sense of self, catalyzed by tools that let that process happen. It is something real, and there are people in the world working hard to discover the means to bring this potential to humanity in a way that can make it happen for normal dudes. This is not something that is only available for monks. I put all of who I am in the line to say that this process of awakening on a species level will be exponential. I consider myself one of the early adopters. Not from a place of ego, but from a place of love of life. I truly love life, and because of all the suffering that I have experienced by TRYING to live it at its full potential, I've ended up here. I'm discovering how to do it, what to do, and I will share what I learn by my experience with those who want to listen.
The trick about this whole thing is that the more you look for it, the more you are in the mind, and the process of awakening is something that is beyond the mind. The mind can't 'become enlightened', and your sense of 'I' can't become enlightened because there is truly not an 'I' to be awakened.
Anyway, I'm going through this process of deep transformation right now, and it is even hard for me to put it in words. I tried my best.
Thank you for opening the floor for this conversation to happen. It is the perfect moment for this.
Chiming in to say that I've also had a lot of enlightenment experiences, though of course like all the others, I have no proof.
Actually it's impossible to prove you had an enlightenment experience, because the (real) experience of enlightenment is one where subject and object disappears momentarily.
I'm in the rinzai school of zen Buddhism, where you introspect what are called koans.
I started introspecting koans after reading the teachings of joshu sasaki roshi. From reading him, I felt like he knew what he was talking about.
A koan is not a riddle but a way to manifest or realize this (momentary) oneness of subject and object.
First time it happened to me was while working (manual labor). I was introspecting the mu koan, saying mu mu mu to myself while working and I had a very brief experience of oneness which lasted half a second.
Second time was during meditation, I was just sitting doing shikantaza (do nothing meditation) and out of the blue said mu in my head which led me to another experience (very brief, like a one second) experience of oneness.
I then started to introspect the 10th koan in the gateless gate : seizei alone and poor.
I tried to experience this oneness while (suddenly) hearing something.
I got it while just sitting and hearing suddenly the noise of a truck passing by. Again, it only lasts a second but it leaves an impression, it’s really strong.
I then cultivated this ability, and now after many years I can experience this oneness whenever I hear anything unexpectedly. if you try for it, you miss it. (Though of course at first you have to try. You have to try without trying, which is why it’s insanely hard to get this enlightenment experience). but it does get easier as you progress.
So (real) enlightenment is not a state you fall into and where you stay, rather it’s an ability to experience oneness from time to time for just a second. As soon as you become aware of it, it’s gone –Because it’s an experience in which subject (“you”) and object (everything else) are together. You can’t stay in it unless you die.
I hope my take (which i know is different from the one you usually hear) will be of some help
cheers
This is absolutely fascinating. I guess I’ll take the hint that I ought to pick up my meditation practice again. But this reminds me of the Wim Hof situation. It’s not always clear whether it’s the method or the person that is special. Does the WHM give everyone superpowers? Or is Wim just a freak? Daniel Ingram seems like a similar character. Are these results replicable in other people? If not, why not? Just because we’re too lazy to stick with the program? (Not unlikely) If the method is applicable to noobs like me, should I buy Ingram’s book?
Looking forward to part 2!
(For the record, I’ve been doing cold exposure regularly for a few years with great results.)
Contemplative practices are a lot like methods of exercise. There are many studies showing weightlifting is great, many studies showing yoga is great, many studies showing pilates is great, etc. However, the impact of *repeated practice* far outweighs the impact of any 1 session. Therefore, it's less important to pick the method that is optimal among methods, and it's more important to pick the method that is sufficiently good while being something you personally connect with and will want to read/study/practice again and again. Over time, you may switch or blend methods as your skills, awareness, and preferences grow, and that's part of the journey to full mastery
As far as Daniel Ingram's ideas, I read MTCTB 3 years ago, and I still thumb through it or read chapters as part of my regular contemplative practice, which I identify as pragmatic Buddhism. The 1st section "Fundamentals" and last section "My Spiritual Quest" are good for many to read, while the other 4 are extremely in-depth for pragmatic Buddhists specifically. The book will do a good job giving you perspective on how to compare/contrast spiritual systems. Basically, how we might compare systems that have potentially similar ideas like "enlightenment," "awakening," "kensho," "self-actualization," and many more. It helped me better evaluate the spectrum of spiritual systems that are out there, and now I feel comfortable identifying which systems work for me. I would expect a similar outcome for you
Great post. You should do a video on myopia. Endmyopia dot org is a good resource. Happy reading and thank you for everything!
I am one of those non-monks guys, and inside me there is a deep sense of this as the ultimate truth of my experience as a human being. There seems to be nothing more important to do in my life than aiming towards that truth, and I'm just coming back from a 10 day retreat on which we worked with plant medicines (Iboga), meditation (self-inquiry) and other tools of exploration of the mind to create conditions of no escape for the ego. Basically what your friend said about the implosion of the sense of self, catalyzed by tools that let that process happen. It is something real, and there are people in the world working hard to discover the means to bring this potential to humanity in a way that can make it happen for normal dudes. This is not something that is only available for monks. I put all of who I am in the line to say that this process of awakening on a species level will be exponential. I consider myself one of the early adopters. Not from a place of ego, but from a place of love of life. I truly love life, and because of all the suffering that I have experienced by TRYING to live it at its full potential, I've ended up here. I'm discovering how to do it, what to do, and I will share what I learn by my experience with those who want to listen.
The trick about this whole thing is that the more you look for it, the more you are in the mind, and the process of awakening is something that is beyond the mind. The mind can't 'become enlightened', and your sense of 'I' can't become enlightened because there is truly not an 'I' to be awakened.
Anyway, I'm going through this process of deep transformation right now, and it is even hard for me to put it in words. I tried my best.
Thank you for opening the floor for this conversation to happen. It is the perfect moment for this.
Two great books for better relating to this whole awakening process:
- Spiritual Enlightenment, the Damnedest Thing - Jed McKenna
- The End of Your World: Uncensored Straight Talk on the Nature of Enlightenment - Adyashanti
Crazy the extent of mysteries that exist in the human mind which we've barely begun to understand. Great piece!
Hmm, recently I've been noticing how low my refresh rate is..
Better head on over to Newegg for some new eyes