Dr.Robert A. Glover of “No More Mr.Nice Guy” fame is a licensed marriage and family therapist with a PhD in psychology. He might not have started High T but is certainly now. Dr Orion Taraban is a licensed psychologist who has normal to higher levels of T whom you interviewed. These men definitely do not fit the regular phenotype of the male psychologist, however. It seems lower T men are drawn to the field of psychology that is dominated by both talking and emoting (both of which high T men are not generally interested in).
The running joke in college was that female psychology majors were taking classes to figure out why they were so nuts and the male psychology majors were taking classes to try to figure out how to get with those girls more efficiently. I have found male psych majors to be on the physically weaker side and showing signs of manipulative and self absorption. It’s not the best source for healthy attitudes toward masculinity or male thought patterns.
Personally, I find the 18th and 19th Protestant thinkers to be much more high T and dynamic while speaking much wisdom about man’s nature and life. Take JC Ryle (1816-1900) or Johnathan Edwards (1703-1758) whose sermons were full of talk of manly fighting and resolve. Ryle’s “Are you Fighting” is a classic sermon that speaks to man’s combative nature (https://www.biblebb.com/files/ryle/are_you_fighting.htm). Edward’s fiery sermons launched an entire religious revival in America, and some credit his spiritual revolutionary fervor with inspiring many founders of America.
Here are some great few lines from that Ryle sermon: “The Christian’s fight is good, because it does good to the soul of him that fights it. All other wars have a bad, lowering, and demoralising tendency. They call forth the worst passions of the human mind. They harden the conscience, and sap the foundations of religion and morality. The Christian warfare alone tends to call forth the best things that are left in man. It promotes humility and charity, it lessens selfishness and worldliness, it induces men to set their affection on things above.”
Excellent point, totally valid. Had to elaborate on this idea:
"Why not frame it as: ‘isn’t it cool that we get to level up and then we get more stuff? Isn’t it exciting to work hard and then have reality reflect back to you the fruits of your labor?’ "
Because the author was making a concerted effort to write in a way that everyone would understand, including women. The way it was written pulls more emotional strings than being totally positive about how men must navigate the world. Then there are men who do not understand these things, or are incapable of playing the game we're up against. They relate to the way it was written as well. Also, total positivity just aint how the world is. Its great to be optimistic, but we have to face the reality of our situations and shortcomings.
Hearing therapy culture people say that every person deserves unconditional love always cracks me up. Boys need unconditional love from their mothers until about age 4, then we start getting held accountable. And ideally, daughters get held accountable around that age too. But a surprising amount of daughters are never held accountable.
I see what you mean - the wide reach of the post is indeed evidence that his attempt to be more relatable was very successful.
His contention that typical male behaviors (being silent, ambitious, or hard working in the gym) are some kind response to not being able to be 'vulnerable' is likely some kind of projection. That is, these behaviors don't necessarily indicate some sort of lack of 'emotional intelligence' - it's just guys being guys.
Absolutely. We need to do physically difficult things and we need to hang out with other men. A lot.
This idea that women want an emotionally available, emotionally intelligent, vulnerable man is an epidemic of women not understanding men, and not understanding themselves or what they're attracted to. Expecting a man to be more like a woman is a very self absorbed notion.
Try being totally vulnerable with the same woman who says she wants an emotionally available man on the dating app. Let me know how that works out. (Please dont do this. She will bolt.)
But the other side of this is that when men learn the language of emotions, we're better at getting what we want out of relationships. Women are extremely skilled at getting what they want from a man. It would also help if women made an effort to understand men. But in this culture of self absorption, good luck.
I wanted to quip, “In neuroscience!” Then I had AI analyze that and the results tickled me. To wit: Neuroscientists might have slightly higher testosterone levels due to their competitive, status-driven work environment and cognitive demands that align with testosterone-associated traits.
It's sad that this is a divisive topic. While there are differences between genders, everyone has their own unique needs. Some men are really sensitive and need to emote and talk just to deal with their feelings. Some men prefer to silently take action. And yes, everyone needs to struggle to grow and build confidence. But I've experienced that building confidence isn't always enough to overcome the alienation caused by insecurity. If I hid my struggle from others, I won't know how they will react if I open up. I won't know if they will care and still respect me, even if I demonstrated my capabilities. Hiding feelings really is dangerous, because it creates separation and reinforces the insecurity. I agree that talk therapy can lean too much into focusing on feelings when many people need help taking action. But surely we can recognize that our culture has sidelined male vulnerability for generations, and it takes time for that to change. Being vulnerable is really important, but iit looks different for different people. For someone deeply sensitive and insecure being vulnerable can look dramatic, childish, and needy. It can really contradict social norms. For someone who is quiet and driven, who feels ok about themselves, vulnerability can be a grunt or a joke with friends. Taking social norms too seriously always hurts people because we are unique. It doesn't matter so much whether those social norms are traditionally masculine or feminine. I hope that all men can enjoy the benefits of high testosterone and the benefits of being vulnerable. And I hope all women can enjoy the benefits of healthy men in their lives.
It’s cool to be able to level up and get more stuff, but there’s a ton of men out there where they really don’t feel like they have clear ways to develop and get more stuff, while still suffering through the pressures and lack of care for not having stuff.
I think the other Substack post is good since while that gloom doesn’t fit a successful man taking on the world and rising up, it does at least garner sympathy for those that would end up in the negative spiral where they need support to feel enough hope that they can begin the virtuous cycle of small success empowering them to try harder which brings more success.
That post was not for someone in your successful position, it was for society looking at the men that don’t make it and are currently too far on the side of lacking sympathy.
I would also note, such post is imbued with feelings of an unfulfilled need of power and acceptance, which is often created by a lack of social skills.
As an user of depression and social anxiety (in remisión) you can find this cores of feelings inside you, specially during meditation. When high enough, they can trigger this mindstate where you stop feeling this adveturous drive of challenging the walls around you and just weep about them, because what you are doing is avoiding the "overspilling" of these cores.
A simple word, memory, or your own imagination can concentrate them in such a way that will provoke an state of flight (as I call them) as the mind priorizes trying to release those cores with pleasure. Sugary foods, dopaminic behaviors, porn, drugs, but these are useless, because it is required to process those cores a necessary kind of "observing" to release them. Still the mind manages to decompress a little over sleep, which is why you get this feeling, an instant, of calm and peace when you wake up, just to be flooded again by dark thoughts, as the mind still tries to release the cores of emotions.
So, what is the proper way to "see"?
To know this, we should go to our most primitive state. The time where we live in tribes. And as we did, we were completely accepted by dozens of people with whom we lived. It was very easy back then. We all had the same costumes, language, if any, even the way we walked. When there is no diferentiation, there's no feeling of aislation, and with this you trigger a feeling of trust and acceptance with will translate today as being "loved".
I presume there's no need to argue about love efect in children. But to be concise, when you use the effect of total acceptance in your feelings cores, they decompress. As they do, the mind stop engaging in feelings of flight over time. And the mind stops fleeing, it starts focusing by itself as it slowly rise feelings and thoughts into the queue of your adquired acceptance, and as it do, you start changing. The cores get lesser and lesser and your worldview changes as a result.
So, even to see requires an appropiate intention for it to work. My bet is that our brains take "being loved" for granted as this was our state living in packs during our evolution and it is a requirement for our emotional processing skills. Hence the saying of Jung, what you don't accept chains you, what you accept transforms you (or something like that). It is a process very linked to the pre frontal cortex, and I can feel it's activation which I would presume is called the third eye in esotérical circles. This I know by a study I read on monkeys, as the prefrontal cortex gets activated, by the process of learning it also triggers the neurons in the emotional centers of the brain, tempering it's activity. My bet is, becausd we looked at monkeys brains because we are not the nazis, we took for granted the function of the pre frontal cortex, as they use the natural way of seeing themselves.
Notorious damage by adiction on this part of the brain seems to support this (any adiction), and in turn, meditators and monks have a notorious prefrontal cortex strenght.
I suspect your views are skewed by the politeness of Japanese culture. Women have absolutely no clue what it’s like to be a man and what men actually do. Zero. 87% of men are invisible to women. And their solipsism makes it impossible for them to see it, ultra rare exceptions not withstanding. In regards to social sexual dynamics I recommend you look at Vox Days body of work at sigma game:
On one hand, I believe pervasive therapy culture is a cancerous force that is wearing away at the mental health of millions of otherwise healthy people.
On the other, it feels like you’ve become captured by this anti-therapy thing, which is probably just as pernicious and, specifically, it feels like cope.
Maybe you’re just conservative and talking about feelings is annoying, but the real flex on self pity isn’t annoyance, it’s indifference. That annoyance… maybe you need to talk to someone about that?
This is similar to a criticism I received when making the 30 days of Bryan Johnson shorts on my IG/youtube. “Why are you so obsessed with Bryan?”though I suspect that wouldn’t have happened if I put out one 70 minute long video
Based on all the thorough research I’ve already done on this topic, I could make one long Substack that’s about 15x the length of these types of posts or I can split it up into much more digestible posts. Going with the multiple posts approach may leave me open to criticisms that I’m “obsessed” but I think the content is much easier to digest this way.
But to your point, if "pervasive therapy culture is a cancerous force that is wearing away at the mental health of millions of otherwise healthy people" ... then I probably need to be talking about it even more.
Just as with the woke/anti-woke spaces, I feel there is a risk of over-correction and entrenchment. That’s why I’d like to make an intervention before another side appears and this becomes another silly culture war front.
I’m a fan of your earlier work and find you to be a great resource, particularly when you stay more descriptive and less prescriptive.
My concern is dying men. While women have higher rates of depression, partially due to therapy culture, men have higher rates of suicide. There are better and worse forms of therapy and the best, humble as its efficacy rates are, could potentially prevent a pretty significant number.
Many forms of therapy and therapy culture are probably causing harm, but advocating for an anti therapy culture could prevent some of the men who would benefit from seeking therapy.
Is prevention the best cure? Yes. Meat, fasting, cold baths, all that is a great first step, but for those who aren’t helped by those methods, I’d hope they’d have more tools at their disposal and normalizing good therapy is a step in that direction.
Dr.Robert A. Glover of “No More Mr.Nice Guy” fame is a licensed marriage and family therapist with a PhD in psychology. He might not have started High T but is certainly now. Dr Orion Taraban is a licensed psychologist who has normal to higher levels of T whom you interviewed. These men definitely do not fit the regular phenotype of the male psychologist, however. It seems lower T men are drawn to the field of psychology that is dominated by both talking and emoting (both of which high T men are not generally interested in).
The running joke in college was that female psychology majors were taking classes to figure out why they were so nuts and the male psychology majors were taking classes to try to figure out how to get with those girls more efficiently. I have found male psych majors to be on the physically weaker side and showing signs of manipulative and self absorption. It’s not the best source for healthy attitudes toward masculinity or male thought patterns.
Personally, I find the 18th and 19th Protestant thinkers to be much more high T and dynamic while speaking much wisdom about man’s nature and life. Take JC Ryle (1816-1900) or Johnathan Edwards (1703-1758) whose sermons were full of talk of manly fighting and resolve. Ryle’s “Are you Fighting” is a classic sermon that speaks to man’s combative nature (https://www.biblebb.com/files/ryle/are_you_fighting.htm). Edward’s fiery sermons launched an entire religious revival in America, and some credit his spiritual revolutionary fervor with inspiring many founders of America.
Here are some great few lines from that Ryle sermon: “The Christian’s fight is good, because it does good to the soul of him that fights it. All other wars have a bad, lowering, and demoralising tendency. They call forth the worst passions of the human mind. They harden the conscience, and sap the foundations of religion and morality. The Christian warfare alone tends to call forth the best things that are left in man. It promotes humility and charity, it lessens selfishness and worldliness, it induces men to set their affection on things above.”
Very good post and important
Excellent point, totally valid. Had to elaborate on this idea:
"Why not frame it as: ‘isn’t it cool that we get to level up and then we get more stuff? Isn’t it exciting to work hard and then have reality reflect back to you the fruits of your labor?’ "
Because the author was making a concerted effort to write in a way that everyone would understand, including women. The way it was written pulls more emotional strings than being totally positive about how men must navigate the world. Then there are men who do not understand these things, or are incapable of playing the game we're up against. They relate to the way it was written as well. Also, total positivity just aint how the world is. Its great to be optimistic, but we have to face the reality of our situations and shortcomings.
Hearing therapy culture people say that every person deserves unconditional love always cracks me up. Boys need unconditional love from their mothers until about age 4, then we start getting held accountable. And ideally, daughters get held accountable around that age too. But a surprising amount of daughters are never held accountable.
I see what you mean - the wide reach of the post is indeed evidence that his attempt to be more relatable was very successful.
His contention that typical male behaviors (being silent, ambitious, or hard working in the gym) are some kind response to not being able to be 'vulnerable' is likely some kind of projection. That is, these behaviors don't necessarily indicate some sort of lack of 'emotional intelligence' - it's just guys being guys.
Absolutely. We need to do physically difficult things and we need to hang out with other men. A lot.
This idea that women want an emotionally available, emotionally intelligent, vulnerable man is an epidemic of women not understanding men, and not understanding themselves or what they're attracted to. Expecting a man to be more like a woman is a very self absorbed notion.
Try being totally vulnerable with the same woman who says she wants an emotionally available man on the dating app. Let me know how that works out. (Please dont do this. She will bolt.)
But the other side of this is that when men learn the language of emotions, we're better at getting what we want out of relationships. Women are extremely skilled at getting what they want from a man. It would also help if women made an effort to understand men. But in this culture of self absorption, good luck.
I wanted to quip, “In neuroscience!” Then I had AI analyze that and the results tickled me. To wit: Neuroscientists might have slightly higher testosterone levels due to their competitive, status-driven work environment and cognitive demands that align with testosterone-associated traits.
I may quip more often now 😆
I think that therapy helped me in one dark moment . I have diagnosed major depression
It's sad that this is a divisive topic. While there are differences between genders, everyone has their own unique needs. Some men are really sensitive and need to emote and talk just to deal with their feelings. Some men prefer to silently take action. And yes, everyone needs to struggle to grow and build confidence. But I've experienced that building confidence isn't always enough to overcome the alienation caused by insecurity. If I hid my struggle from others, I won't know how they will react if I open up. I won't know if they will care and still respect me, even if I demonstrated my capabilities. Hiding feelings really is dangerous, because it creates separation and reinforces the insecurity. I agree that talk therapy can lean too much into focusing on feelings when many people need help taking action. But surely we can recognize that our culture has sidelined male vulnerability for generations, and it takes time for that to change. Being vulnerable is really important, but iit looks different for different people. For someone deeply sensitive and insecure being vulnerable can look dramatic, childish, and needy. It can really contradict social norms. For someone who is quiet and driven, who feels ok about themselves, vulnerability can be a grunt or a joke with friends. Taking social norms too seriously always hurts people because we are unique. It doesn't matter so much whether those social norms are traditionally masculine or feminine. I hope that all men can enjoy the benefits of high testosterone and the benefits of being vulnerable. And I hope all women can enjoy the benefits of healthy men in their lives.
It’s cool to be able to level up and get more stuff, but there’s a ton of men out there where they really don’t feel like they have clear ways to develop and get more stuff, while still suffering through the pressures and lack of care for not having stuff.
I think the other Substack post is good since while that gloom doesn’t fit a successful man taking on the world and rising up, it does at least garner sympathy for those that would end up in the negative spiral where they need support to feel enough hope that they can begin the virtuous cycle of small success empowering them to try harder which brings more success.
That post was not for someone in your successful position, it was for society looking at the men that don’t make it and are currently too far on the side of lacking sympathy.
If only there was some sort of workshop which could advise us on how to raise our testosterone.
I would also note, such post is imbued with feelings of an unfulfilled need of power and acceptance, which is often created by a lack of social skills.
As an user of depression and social anxiety (in remisión) you can find this cores of feelings inside you, specially during meditation. When high enough, they can trigger this mindstate where you stop feeling this adveturous drive of challenging the walls around you and just weep about them, because what you are doing is avoiding the "overspilling" of these cores.
A simple word, memory, or your own imagination can concentrate them in such a way that will provoke an state of flight (as I call them) as the mind priorizes trying to release those cores with pleasure. Sugary foods, dopaminic behaviors, porn, drugs, but these are useless, because it is required to process those cores a necessary kind of "observing" to release them. Still the mind manages to decompress a little over sleep, which is why you get this feeling, an instant, of calm and peace when you wake up, just to be flooded again by dark thoughts, as the mind still tries to release the cores of emotions.
So, what is the proper way to "see"?
To know this, we should go to our most primitive state. The time where we live in tribes. And as we did, we were completely accepted by dozens of people with whom we lived. It was very easy back then. We all had the same costumes, language, if any, even the way we walked. When there is no diferentiation, there's no feeling of aislation, and with this you trigger a feeling of trust and acceptance with will translate today as being "loved".
I presume there's no need to argue about love efect in children. But to be concise, when you use the effect of total acceptance in your feelings cores, they decompress. As they do, the mind stop engaging in feelings of flight over time. And the mind stops fleeing, it starts focusing by itself as it slowly rise feelings and thoughts into the queue of your adquired acceptance, and as it do, you start changing. The cores get lesser and lesser and your worldview changes as a result.
So, even to see requires an appropiate intention for it to work. My bet is that our brains take "being loved" for granted as this was our state living in packs during our evolution and it is a requirement for our emotional processing skills. Hence the saying of Jung, what you don't accept chains you, what you accept transforms you (or something like that). It is a process very linked to the pre frontal cortex, and I can feel it's activation which I would presume is called the third eye in esotérical circles. This I know by a study I read on monkeys, as the prefrontal cortex gets activated, by the process of learning it also triggers the neurons in the emotional centers of the brain, tempering it's activity. My bet is, becausd we looked at monkeys brains because we are not the nazis, we took for granted the function of the pre frontal cortex, as they use the natural way of seeing themselves.
Notorious damage by adiction on this part of the brain seems to support this (any adiction), and in turn, meditators and monks have a notorious prefrontal cortex strenght.
I suspect your views are skewed by the politeness of Japanese culture. Women have absolutely no clue what it’s like to be a man and what men actually do. Zero. 87% of men are invisible to women. And their solipsism makes it impossible for them to see it, ultra rare exceptions not withstanding. In regards to social sexual dynamics I recommend you look at Vox Days body of work at sigma game:
https://open.substack.com/pub/sigmagame/p/on-handling-hypocrisy?r=g57cl&utm_medium=ios
On one hand, I believe pervasive therapy culture is a cancerous force that is wearing away at the mental health of millions of otherwise healthy people.
On the other, it feels like you’ve become captured by this anti-therapy thing, which is probably just as pernicious and, specifically, it feels like cope.
Maybe you’re just conservative and talking about feelings is annoying, but the real flex on self pity isn’t annoyance, it’s indifference. That annoyance… maybe you need to talk to someone about that?
This is similar to a criticism I received when making the 30 days of Bryan Johnson shorts on my IG/youtube. “Why are you so obsessed with Bryan?”though I suspect that wouldn’t have happened if I put out one 70 minute long video
Based on all the thorough research I’ve already done on this topic, I could make one long Substack that’s about 15x the length of these types of posts or I can split it up into much more digestible posts. Going with the multiple posts approach may leave me open to criticisms that I’m “obsessed” but I think the content is much easier to digest this way.
But to your point, if "pervasive therapy culture is a cancerous force that is wearing away at the mental health of millions of otherwise healthy people" ... then I probably need to be talking about it even more.
Just as with the woke/anti-woke spaces, I feel there is a risk of over-correction and entrenchment. That’s why I’d like to make an intervention before another side appears and this becomes another silly culture war front.
I’m a fan of your earlier work and find you to be a great resource, particularly when you stay more descriptive and less prescriptive.
My concern is dying men. While women have higher rates of depression, partially due to therapy culture, men have higher rates of suicide. There are better and worse forms of therapy and the best, humble as its efficacy rates are, could potentially prevent a pretty significant number.
Many forms of therapy and therapy culture are probably causing harm, but advocating for an anti therapy culture could prevent some of the men who would benefit from seeking therapy.
Is prevention the best cure? Yes. Meat, fasting, cold baths, all that is a great first step, but for those who aren’t helped by those methods, I’d hope they’d have more tools at their disposal and normalizing good therapy is a step in that direction.